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| ANARCHY IN THE UK |
Phil Austin |
Doug Williams talks about his storied career and the upcoming Noah UK show on 21 June in Coventry!
Doug Williams has done it all. Without a shadow of a doubt the number one wrestler in the UK, he is also a star in Japan and on the American independent circuit. He has risen through the ranks of British wrestling to become the top technical wrestler not only in this country, but a contender to that title throughout the entire world. Crisp and coordinated, Doug Williams is a wrestler that many in the industry aspire to be like.
But beyond this, he is also one of the driving forces behind the biggest independent UK show in many years; Doug’s second home, Pro Wrestling Noah, will be coming to our shores on 21 June for the first time in history. We sat down with “The Anarchist” and spoke about his career, his Japanese wrestling experiences and the upcoming Noah supershow…
FSM: You’ve been wrestling for quite a few years now. How did you first get started in the business?
Doug Williams: I saw an article in a UK magazine called Superstars Of Wrestling for a gym down in Kent, which was the Hammerlock gym. I went down there and started training in the Summer of 1993.
FSM: Who did you used to watch and really admire back in those days?
DW: On the British wrestling side it was guys like Rollerball Rocco and Fit Finlay, and from the American side I used to like The Hart Foundation and The Bulldogs. They were really my favourites from back in that era.
FSM: That’s setting some high standards! Presumably, though, the early matches of Doug Williams weren’t the technical masterpieces we know today. What are some of your memories of your first matches?
DW: (Laughing) It’s a bit of a blur, really. Unless you see them later on video or whatever, you don’t really remember too much about them. It’s just the thrill and the buzz of being out there in front of a live audience. Certainly the style I do now, and that I’m known for, I didn’t really pick up until I left Hammerlock in 1997,
so it’s vastly different to back then.
FSM: What kind of place was Hammerlock like to work in, back then?
DW: In terms of training, it was very good. It was really the only place available at that time, so everyone who wanted to be a wrestler, all the young guys, went there, and there was a good camaraderie and excitement. The shows used to be good – when I was at Hammerlock they were always well attended and reasonably put together, and everyone tried their best.
FSM: Obviously there were quite a few people who came out of the Hammerlock school and made a go of it in the business. Were there any of your fellow students that you could see were going to be something special?
DW: Oh yeah, guys like Jody Fleisch – you could see the potential in him straight away, definitely. Justin Richards was always someone who was good on the mats, and a few other guys that aren’t around any more like Gary Steele. They were the guys who had real potential from the word go.
FSM: When you were starting out, what were your ambitions? A lot of people have the big ‘starring role at WrestleMania’ type of dream.
DW: When I first started, my only goal was to regularly wrestle on the British circuit. I really didn’t have expectations of doing anything more than that. It was only as time progressed and opportunities came my way that I started furthering my ambitions. I just took it one step at a time, really. First was the British circuit, then I wanted to work in Europe and then eventually moved on to America, Japan and then worldwide. Certainly there was never any big gameplan from the start.
FSM: The first time many people would have seen you was on L!VE TV, wrestling in the UWA. What was it like working in front of cameras instead of just a live audience – was that a big adjustment?
DW: No, the people running the UWA didn’t really know that much about wrestling that they could give you any direction about doing it on TV instead of in front of a live audience. So for me it was pretty much the same – there was no real difference, and most of the guys who worked there I knew anyway, so it felt quite comfortable. Obviously there was some excitement about it being TV and where it could potentially lead at the time, but we didn’t really know. When we were doing the shows, they just felt like normal shows to us.
FSM: Was that the same feeling when you first came across the FWA – was it just like another show, or did you see anything special in it?
DW: When I first started wrestling for the FWA it was very small. It was running little venues – I think the first FWA show I did was in Birmingham. It was a very small show and the company was just like anyone else, so it would be hard for me to say that I could see the potential in it there. Obviously it was much later on, post-Revival time, when it started picking up steam and going towards the British Uprising era that you could see there could be something really major happening.
FSM: Speaking of Revival, that was pretty much the most ambitious undertaking that British wrestling had ever taken on. Did you think that was going to be a success when you first heard about it, or was there some caution on your part?
DW: I’m quite a cynical person and I thought, at the time, maybe it wouldn’t be tremendously successful. But when I heard that they’d secured the services of Eddie Guerrero and Brian Christopher, I had a little bit more positivity about it and obviously it turned out very well. But the nature of the business is such that you naturally become cynical about these big things, and they tend to be overhyped nine times out of ten.
FSM: You mentioned the late, great Eddie Guerrero. What was he like to work with, and how was he as a person backstage?
DW: He was a very nice guy, very easy and very open to my ideas, and it made working there a lot less pressured for me. Because obviously, not only working him but in front of such a large crowd and on TV as well, there was a lot of pressure there.
FSM: Was it different walking out in front of a crowd that size instead of what was usual for British wrestling up to that point, which was a few hundred people?
DW: Yes, though to be fair the UWA had run Crystal Palace before and had a similar sized crowd, so I was used to that. But the event had a much more professional feel and the TV aspect added the extra pressure, really. Of course, when it’s a couple of thousand fans like that you get nervous, but at least I’d had some experience of that beforehand – I can’t imagine what it would’ve been like for the other guys on the show that hadn’t been used to that sort of crowd before.
FSM: Since Revival, there have been a fair few of these so-called ‘supershows’. Do you think they’re a good thing for British wrestling overall or are there negative issues with them?
DW: You’ve got to separate them from British wrestling; they’re shows in their own right, showcasing wrestling from all over the world. The fact that they’re happening in Britain is not a detriment to the British wrestling scene in any respect, and it certainly helps some guys in getting exposure and experience in working in those sorts of environments that they’re not really going to do on any other UK shows.
So, no, there is no detriment to the British scene at all – I can’t really think why people would say that. I mean, the one thing people say is, “Why don’t the promoters who run those shows promote a touring company in England, or run British wrestling shows instead?” But there are people who do that already – they’re aiming for something else, which is an isolated show in its own right.
FSM: This leads us to Pro Wrestling Noah’s European Navigation 2008. The 21 June show in Coventry is one of the most anticipated events we’ve had over here in a long time. You’ve brought some of the individual guys over here before, but how did this deal go down for a full blown show?
DW: Interestingly, I was approached about possibly running the show and so I put it to the Japanese office, and they were very excited about it. Based on the guys that had come over and the reception they’d received in the previous two years, I thought it would probably do reasonably successfully. And obviously Noah is currently the number two or number three company in the world, so I thought the time might be right to try the show.
FSM: With both WWE and TNA coming over this year, what do you think Noah will offer wrestling fans that the American promotions don’t?
DW: Obviously Noah offers a more realistic style – a lot less flamboyance and hype, but a lot more hard-hitting, action-orientated wrestling that you wouldn’t necessarily see on WWE or TNA. And you’re going to see guys that you might get to see on TV or read about in magazines, but you wouldn’t necessarily get any other opportunity to see them live, short of going to Japan to watch them in their own environment. It’s going to be a real, authentic, Japanese-style show, which you wouldn’t get anywhere else bar Japan!
FSM: A lot of British fans will have seen Noah action on The Fight Network, on DVD or even through the internet. But for those less familiar with the product, who should they be looking for to capture their attention in June?
DW: KENTA is the main one, because this will be his European debut, and a lot of people will not only be familiar with him from Noah but from Ring Of Honor as well, as he’s been there the last couple of years. So I’m really excited about seeing him here, and I’m sure the fans will be, too, especially seeing him live. And Kenta Kobashi coming back after all that he’s been through in the last couple of years. And there are a few other wrestlers that haven’t been here before that I’m sure a few of the more hardcore Noah fans will be pleased to see.
FSM: Noah still has the legends like Misawa and Kobashi, but who are some of the younger guys that you feel have real potential going forward?
DW: Obviously Go Shiozaki, who is Kenta Kobashi’s apprentice, is the one who has the main heavyweight potential out of everybody. And the other guy I really rate is Atsushi Aoki – in the short time that he’s been wrestling, he’s really been tremendous. You’ve got real stars of the future, there.
FSM: Noah has sent its guys over to work the UK circuit in recent times. Is it still that British wrestling is seen as a vital part of Japanese wrestlers learning their craft, or is it something that has occurred because of the office’s relationship with yourself? Do they still see the UK scene as something special?
DW: Certainly what they try to achieve by sending the young guys over here is to give them experience wrestling in different styles. Then, when they promote them in Japan, they’re showing that these guys can go over and be successful in other countries, which obviously makes them look more like superstars in the Japanese fans’ eyes. It’s something that neither Noah, All Japan or many of the other companies really did, but I think it’s something that the office has been very happy with, in the way it’s gone down.
FSM: Most fans will be aware that you’ve been in Ring Of Honor and the King Of Indies tournament before, but how did you get involved with Noah?
DW: I was asked to do a show for Mike Modest and Donovan Morgan in California, and some Noah guys were on the card. Luckily I managed to wrestle them and then they asked me to send them a DVD as well, so obviously some other members of the office had seen me, and then they employed me from there.
FSM: Japan was one of your goals at that point.
DW: Yeah, definitely. That was my ultimate goal. As I said earlier about the different steps, after breaking out into Europe and then America, my ultimate goal was Japan. So I’m pretty glad I managed to make that step.
FSM: What was your first impression of Japan – was it much of a culture shock?
DW: Very much so. It’s totally different to anywhere in Europe or even in the US. Trying to get by is hard at first – even trying to eat food that you’re familiar with is a chore, or was when I first started out. But in terms of wrestling and doing the shows it’s all so professionally run – you’re looked after and the guys all know what they’re doing, so that was never really a problem when I first went over there.
FSM: Who were the guys you initially worked with and how did you adapt to their style?
DW: I did a lot with Marufuji and Ogawa on the first tour. They, more than anyone, were quite keen to learn the British style, so it was quite easy for me in that respect, because I’d be showing them things and they would learn from me. The thing I had to learn and pick up really quickly is the sheer amount of tags and six-mans that they do. Primarily before that I was a singles wrestler, so learning the psychology and the style of those sorts of matches was the main thing I had to pick up. I think it took me a good couple of tours to get used to that!
FSM: In recent years the Japanese promotions have started working together a lot. Do you think this inter-promotion will help build the Japanese wrestling scene back up to a level where it once was?
DW: I don’t know, really. To be honest, Noah has moved away a little bit from cross-promoting again in the last year or two. It does it a little bit with Dragon Gate, still. I think what the Japanese wrestling industry as a whole would benefit from is perhaps a few less promotions. There are a few cross-promotional matches that would still draw the big crowds, but I’m not sure how that would help the business from a long-term point of view. The creation of new stars within companies is probably the main thing they need.
FSM: On that subject, Noah has been testing out various ideas as to who will be the next stars to carry the company, especially with Kobashi being out. Who do you think would be the best guys to build around?
DW: Obviously they’ve been building Morishima up for that role, especially with his involvement with Ring Of Honor and holding the ROH Title, and Shiozaki in the long term is definitely going to be a prospective champion. I think they are the two main heavyweight guys who will carry that company forward in the next five years, for sure.
FSM: Was the experiment with Marufuji as champion seen as a disappointment at all?
DW: I don’t think so, but that’s a case of educating the fans. I think the company will try to bring him up again at various points. He’s still the Heavyweight Tag Champion at the moment with Sugiura, and it’s just a case of educating the fans that someone of Marufuji’s size and stature can mix
it up with the heavyweights.
FSM: With Kobashi’s illness having taken him out of the picture for so long, has that cemented his influence and standing within the Japanese wrestling industry?
DW: He’s seen as a legend and an icon now. I think that his aura coming back is much more than it was before. His return was incredible – he was up there before but now he has been elevated to legendary status, and hopefully it will help boost the market and the industry in the long term.
FSM: With all that’s going on in the business in 2008, do you see this being a breakout year for the company?
DW: I think so. Obviously with Kobashi’s return, Morishima’s comeback after his ROH Title run and the company’s continuing expansion abroad, not only to the UK but also America, it could be a very good year for Noah.
FSM: So do you think, especially with its connections to Ring Of Honor, that there might be an opportunity for an American version of what the promotion is doing in Coventry down the line?
DW: I think it’s much more difficult to do that in the States than it is here, to be honest with you. I could see probably a joint promotion with ROH, but a Noah show in its own right now in the US might be very difficult. They would probably love to do it, of course, but the realities are somewhat different, unfortunately…
For the rest of this feature, check out issue 25 of FSM – available at WH Smith and all good retailers. (For US readers we are now carried at Borders and Barnes & Noble, so check for local availability or click here to subscribe.)
For information on European Navigation, the Noah supershow taking place 21 June at the Coventry SkyDome, visit www.prowrestlingnoah.co.uk or call 023 9229 7788.
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