Cause Stone Cold Said So! Interview with Steve Austin

FSM: Thanks for chatting to us today, Steve. Before we get into your new film, our colleague Bill Apter suggested that a nice way to break the ice might be to ask you about the time you had to go for an MRI, and he had to hold your foot...?
Steve Austin: Yep! That was in Philadelphia, and I remember it like it was yesterday. I'm not a fan of closed spaces, and I remember going into that MRI tube, and it was very, very cramped. Being in the wrestling business, I always felt that someone was going to pull a rib on me, so I figured that someone was going to put a cap on each end, and I wouldn't be able to get out of the tube. So I told Bill to hold my foot, and he sure did!

The new film is called Tactical Force, and you play Captain Frank Tate. Can you tell us a little about the film, and about Tate?
Well Tate is the leader of a SWAT team, and we go into a supermarket and bust up a bunch of stuff trying to save the store from a robbery. After that, we get our asses chewed by the captain, and as punishment we're sent to do some simulation training on an empty building. But it turns out not to be an empty building, because two sets of parties converge on the scene, and try to get the contents out of a briefcase. So we're trying to extricate our way out of the situation, with no bullets and no firepower.

It's obviously a natural fit that you would play another tough-guy character, but would you relish trying to play a role that's very different form the "Stone Cold" Steve Austin that we know?
Shit, I'd love to play something different from the "Stone Cold" that you know. I'd love to try some comedy. As a matter of fact, that's one of the things that I love the most in watching movies. I grew up being a big Monty Python fan, and Benny Hill, The Three Stooges, and stupid shit like that. It was groundbreaking stuff from Monty Python, because those guys were 20 years ahead of their time. I grew up watching comedy, and that's what I love.
At the end of the day, my guys always tell me, "Well Steve, you don't want to get typecast." So on one hand, I'd like to do some comedy or humour, but at the end of the day, if I get a chance to make 20 or 30 more action movies, it's still a good run. I'm just happy to be busy.

You mentioned playing something a little different, but how far would you be willing would you be to push yourself towards that? Do you see yourself dressed as a fairy like The Rock (in The Tooth Fairy), or in a ballet outfit like Hulk Hogan (in Mr Nanny)?
Probably not (laughs). I'm willing to entertain the thought of doing pretty much anything, but you know, me doing a fairy, or something like Brokeback Mountain... I want to stick to something that I am comfortable doing. I don't want to just do something on a whim because I want to be different. I worked my ass off to get to where I'm at, and I don't have to do anything stupid, so I'm not going to.

Let's talk a little wrestling. When you started out, you were trained by Chris Adams. You didn't always have the greatest words to say about him, especially in your autobiography, but what was so bad about the experience?
Well it all depends on where I'm at, or what I'm doing. You ask me a question right now, and I'll give you an answer, but if you ask me what was in the "Stone Cold" autobiography, I don't even remember what I said.
Chris, though, was a pretty shady guy - he had his issues. I loved working with him, and he did a damn good job of training me, him and Chico Torres, as far as learning how to take bumps and do a little bit of chain wrestling. And he was a great businessman; when it was time for him to win, he won. When it was time for me to get heat, I got heat. Man, we were travelling around the road, hitting the spots in Texas, going on to Louisiana, and I was working in the semi-main event just because I was working with Chris Adams, and it was a hot angle. I learned a lot from that guy. Most of my bad feelings came from a time when I was booked by (Texas promoter) Ed Watts, and I was already committed to those dates. Chris called me up and said, "Hey, can you do these shots for me?" I said, "Hell Chris, I'm already working for Ed." So then Chris kinda guilt-tripped me, and I called Ed up, and he let me out of the shots. Chris had told me, "I'll pay you double", so Ed was nice enough to let me out of the dates. So I go and do the shots for Chris, and then get my pay-check, and it was exactly what Ed was gonna pay me - the amount Chris was supposed to double. So I called him and said, "Hey Chris, it's Steve. I've just gotten my pay-check, and remember you said you were going to double my pay-days? Well, you didn't." And he just kinda got silent on the phone, and then he hung up on me. That was where the feelings came from when I talked about Chris. I respected him as a performer in the ring - he did a great job working with me. When me and Chris and Jeannie [Clark] and Toni [Adams] were doing our angle, he was the lead guy, he made all the decisions, and there was no animosity at all - we had a great time. But don't let anybody make out that I hate Chris Adams. I hated what happened at the time, and he certainly had his issues judging by the trouble he got into. But it's sad that he died the way he died.

You've spoken of working in Memphis, and only being able to afford to live on raw potatoes and tuna fish. Were your initial hardships in the business a good learning experience, or is paying your dues in this manner overrated?
No, man, you could never overrate paying your dues! At the time, I was living out of a real shitty hotel when I was out of town. The people let me pay my rent when I had the money, and certainly there were several times when I didn't have food or whatever. Man, when I look back on those days in Dallas, or when I moved down to Tennessee, those days were some of the most fun I ever had in my entire life. I didn't have a pot to piss in, but I was riding up and down the road, I was a professional wrestler, and I was learning my trade. I had guys surrounding me on the card who had more than 10 years in the business - you could ask anybody a question, and get a damn good answer. I absolutely loved it, and I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world.
You know, some guys might just come down the road and all of a sudden, they don't have to pay any dues, and they're just an overnight success story. Well, that's great if that's how it happens for you, but it's not how it happened for me. So I can only speak from the experience of what I went though, and that was paying dues. It certainly gives you an appreciation for the money you make in later years, and it gives you an appreciation for the business and learning how to win or lose. I mean, you can get just as much out of a loss, or more out of a loss, than the guy who's beating you on the card.

Let's skip forward a couple of years, to 1992 in WCW. Around that time, the wrestlers didn't really appreciate the changes that Bill Watts made when he became Executive Vice President of the company. But looking back, the Watts era has become very popular among fans because it was one of the last times that pro wrestling was promoted as sport. What do you think about that period?
I just remember it being a really interesting time in my life. I was still green in the business, but working with some really talented people - guys I looked up to and really respected. Bill Watts came in, and it wasn't so much his ideas, but kinda how he went about them. He came off as a bit of a bully - or a lot of a bully (laughs). He had an interesting way of talking to people, and it rubbed people the wrong way. We were sitting there working our asses off, times weren't so great, then all of a sudden you have Watts come in, and he wanted to take the mats away from ringside? That was an asinine thing to do.
Anyway, it was 1992, and back then, wrestling was perceived as being more real than not real. That's why when John Stossel asked if the business was fake, Doctor D (David Schultz) busted his eardrums up - he was trying to protect the business. Even when I broke in with Chris, heading into my first match, he still hadn't told me how wrestling worked. Now when I look back, I know it was about protecting the business, but obviously now we've said that it's sports entertainment. We're not trying to insult anyone's intelligence - we're trying to be David Copperfield. We'll tell you what we're doing, but we're not going to tell you how we do it. I can understand now what Watts was trying to do, but obviously, in the prevention of injuries, taking the mats away from ringside is not the greatest idea in the world.

You went to Japan around that time, and were involved in New Japan Pro Wrestling's G-1 Climax tournament. How did you find wrestling in the Orient?
That was my first time in Japan, and I enjoyed it. I loved the style of wrestling, and I loved the work ethic. I loved how the boys paid their dues coming up in that system. They were all pretty much shooters, could work amateur style, and were very technical and very mechanically inclined in the ring.
What I didn't like about it was the lack of the soap opera aspect - it was presented as more of a shoot thing. That's great, but the soap opera part is what I like about American professional wrestling.

You were also in WCW in 1994 when Hulk Hogan came in, making sweeping changes as he did so. How did you feel about Hogan's signing at the time?
I wasn't happy about it. I didn't think it was going to help the company that much. This was at a time when I was trying to come into my own, and with my competitive nature, I was against it. Hogan's a big star, and he's always been a big star, but at the time I didn't want him to come down, and I think a lot of guys didn't want him. He can stir up the shit pretty good.
But, with that being said, people always think that we have heat. I don't have heat with that guy; I have so much respect for what he's done in the world of wrestling. He put it on the map in the '80s, and had one of, if not the greatest run in the history of the business. So I have nothing but respect for that guy, from a business standpoint.

Your last match in WCW was against Randy Savage, in what was basically a two-minute squash. Can you remember what your feelings were about doing that, and do you have anything to add about Randy Savage, given his very sad passing recently?
I barely even remember wrestling Randy in that match. I remember talking to him briefly beforehand, but it was just a match for him to beat me with no fanfare, there in Orlando at the TV tapings. I didn't think anything of it, and certainly didn't mind doing the honours for Randy Savage.
I didn't really know Randy; other than that match, I might have crossed paths with him one time. When I was in WCW, he was in WWF, and when I was in WWF, he was WCW, so we never got a chance to know each other. But when I was at my peak, I would have loved to work a programme with Randy Savage. He was Randy Savage, and everything he did was just tremendous: his work in the ring, his intensity, his delivery, his intent, his promos. He's one of the best performers I've ever seen in my life, and I've just got so much respect for the guy.

How did life change for you in the WWF after the Austin 3:16 promo at King of the Ring '96? Did you sense that people backstage were looking at you differently after that?
I was so caught up in it that I didn't think twice about it. I just knew I was on a mission, and things were starting to heat up. That promo launched the Austin 3:16 shirt, and it was in the same promo that I invented "'Cause 'Stone Cold' said so". I was just looking for an impromptu way to button up a promo, and that popped into my head, but it was all a fluke. Had I not won King of the Ring, none of this shit would have ever happened. And had Triple-H and all those guys not broke kayfabe in Madison Square Garden (the infamous "curtain call") when Kevin Nash and Scott Hall were gonna go south for [Ted] Turner... Vince wasn't gong to punish his world champion Shawn Michaels, so he put the screws to Triple-H because he had to get his revenge on somebody. So, Triple-H was actually supposed to win that event, but I remember walking across the parking lot one day, about two weeks before King of the Ring, and Vince said, "Hey Steve, you got a minute? I just want to let you know that in two weeks you're going to win King of the Ring."
Had that never happened, Austin 3:16, and "'Cause 'Stone Cold' said so" would have never been invented because it just... wouldn't have happened. I always think that things happen for a reason, and that was an interesting thing that happened. Once I cut that promo, it was back to the grindstone; getting my head down, working my ass off, and trying to get over.

In 1997 and 1998, you wrestled The Undertaker a number of times. The last time we spoke to you, you told us that you both used to kid each other about who would wrestle for the longest time. When you look at how banged up 'Taker is these days, are you grateful for your decision to get out of the business?
Well, you know, I needed to get out of the business when I did. Looking at 'Taker... As far as how beaten up he is, I don't know, but the thing about a guy like 'Taker and any of the tall guys in this business... Mechanically, and from a kinesiology standpoint, things just happen different when you're that long of a human being. But that guy is tougher than nails, and he can absorb so much punishment.
Man, when I think about it, I would have loved to have got another few years in me, but my cards came like they did, and I had to play out accordingly. I have always respected The Undertaker for lasting longer than I did - he was a guy who didn't pussy-foot around in the ring. He took his bumps, he never walked on eggshells, and he put it all on the line every time he went to the ring, and I respect that.

Can you put into words how much of a leader he is in the locker room?
It's a funny thing. One reason he's so respected is because the guy's been around forever (laughs). He's just that kinda guy. He was like that the first time I met him in Dallas, Texas. He was trying to take care of me in a match, and of course, I stunk the joint out. He's a stand-up guy, and an honest guy. He keeps a lot of his business to himself, and he's very private, but he commands respect, and he gets it. That's not in a bully way, either; that's just who and what Mark is.

When you returned from your neck surgery in October 2000, WWE was very different from when you had left it. Triple-H, for example, seemed to have a lot more power and influence behind the scenes. Did you come back and realise that WWE was a different place?
Absolutely. When you're gone for as long as I was, and you're coming back from a deal like that, you're wondering what kind of physicality you'll be able to withstand, and what kinda changes you're gonna have to make. And with that long gone, will the fans accept you back? And it was a different system, too. Promos were being done different; they were starting to be scripted a little bit, and I wasn't used to working like that. I didn't know what was going to happen when I came back, but when I got back, right to the top, the fans accepted me back.
But yes, the system had changed, and there was a feeling of change in the air from power standpoints and everything else. I've always been a top guy since I got hot as "Stone Cold", and I remained a top guy until I got out.

Looking back, with hindsight, how do you feel in regard to leaving WWE so acrimoniously in 2002?
What was the deal with that one?

You were asked to lose to Brock Lesnar in a TV match, and you refused.
Well, you've got one of the hottest guys there's ever been in the business in a period of time, and all of a sudden you want to job him out with no build-up, no notice, in a tournament-style bracket thing to try and get Brock over. I just thought it was a bad, bad business decision, and I told them to go fuck themselves. If they were gonna do that, I wasn't gonna be there.
It's very rare that you have a guy like myself, or Hogan, who can draw this crazy money. I can tell you how many times it's happened: just two. I'm not saying anybody else never drew money, I'm just talking about the insane money that we were drawing at the time. And all of a sudden you want to unceremoniously beat that guy? I thought that my back was against the wall, and that they were poking me with a stick. I was running hard; I was at every show I was supposed to be at, I showed up early, I was the last one to leave, and all of a sudden you want to beat me on TV? To try to make a guy? No! If you want that guy to beat me on a pay-per-view three months down the road, that's one thing. It wasn't anything to do with Brock Lesnar - it could have been anybody in that damn locker room. But to unceremoniously job your number one guy out is a bad business decision, so I said, "Fuck you." I handled that the wrong way. If I got to go back through my career and do anything different than I did, I would have went to the building, listened to what Vince said, and told him, "That sounds good, but I ain't gonna do it." I wouldn't have taken my ball and went home, as they said I did, and that's what I did do. I'm a loyal guy, but I felt that they were fucking with me, so I said, "Fuck you", and that's the way I handled it. I couldn't have handled it in any more of a wrong fashion than I did.

Didn't they also ask you to do a job for Jonathan Coachman, at Taboo Tuesday back in 2005?
No, they didn't ask me to do a job for Coach. They wanted me to work with Coach, and I think he was gonna come down, and Mark Henry or somebody was going to come down too. I can't hardly remember that one... (pauses) Shit, I don't think it was about doing a job for The Coach... I can't remember, I really can't.

We'd like to talk to you about some wrestling in 2011 as well. How much of CM Punk's recent "shoot" promo resonated with you? Previously, you've said that WWE has become a bit too polished, and corporate. Did you find yourself agreeing with what Punk was saying on TV?
Well, I just think the guy had a gut-full. He was working with top guys, and he wasn't being treated like a top guy. It was time for him to get a new contract, and luckily they were able to come to terms, and CM is happy, Vince McMahon is happy, and the company is happy. He had his back up against the wall. I just think he had an axe to grind, and it was for a reason. So, I felt his frustrations; I've been there in similar shoes, and there's a close parallel there.
The promo was a breath of fresh air that was drastically needed in the world of sports entertainment. I look for big things to come out of that kid; I love his promos, I love his work, and I love the fact that he doesn't look like a bodybuilder. He's not 6ft 5in, and he doesn't look like a model. I like guys who don't look the same, and certainly with his presentation, the "straight edge" stuff, and all the tattoos, he's got his own look. I love what he's doing, but it's him, and that's why it's not a gimmick.

Last month we printed an article suggesting that some wrestlers should do more to protect their on-screen characters. Do you think guys should try and stand up for themselves, when they're faced with a storyline that makes them look ridiculous?
You gotta know how and when to stand up, and on what grounds. So many of these kids are so green that they don't know whether to shit or wind their watch. I'm not coming down on them - it's just a fact of life. There are so many green kids on that roster, and they don't know what's going on yet. I've been there; as "Stunning" Steve Austin, I was working with Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat, and we were having some killer matches all over the United States. I remember asking Ricky one time - because he had already had his WWF run, and he was one of those guys I've always respected - "What do you think I'm missing?" He said, "Steve, I don't think you're missing anything." Well, he was right from a mechanical standpoint, but "Stunning" Steve Austin, with the stupid fucking sequined jacket, wearing the vest in the ring, the shitty hairstyle... what's so "stunning" about this guy? He doesn't come across as stunning. To me, that was a name that Dutch Mantell invented, and I was a kind of cocky arrogant heel, but that's where it started and stopped. I had shades of Ric Flair, trying to be a cowardly heel, and I was influenced by his body of work, but in the WWF that's not what worked for me. It was the receding hair-line, and having to shave my head.
Going back to these kids, they need to take control, but it's about sitting down, and watching hours and hours of as much footage as you can, of days gone by, of guys who were established characters or gimmicks in the ring, and seeing what these guys represented, why you liked them and why you hated them, and they've got to stop being so goddamn vanilla. When you're watching that damn ring, the action can be great, the story can be great, but you want to be invested in those two participants in the ring. You want to love one of them, and you want to hate one of them.

Speaking of guys who are relatively inexperienced, you've recently come off doing the Tough Enough programme. We've spoken to the producers of the equivalent UFC programme, The Ultimate Fighter, and they told us how they pieced together this reality show actually is. How much of Tough Enough was embellished in that way?
Man, Tough Enough was pretty much a damn shoot. Anytime I did an elimination, I could have eliminated anybody I wanted to. I gave these people windows of opportunity to step through, to save their ass. Ultimately, it was my decision who left that show.
There were more shoot aspects than I ever would have imagined, because I had my perceptions of what reality TV would be. It was a lot different, and it was pretty damn real. Obviously, there's people who are going to give you some ideas, their opinions on who's gotta go, and who's gotta stay. I asked the three trainers for their opinions on that, but at the end of the day, it was my deal. I had a lot of fun doing that, and I wish they'd get settled up and call for Season Two, because I got a chance to go back into a world that I know and love, and have got a PhD in, so to speak. I really enjoyed doing the show, and I could have picked Luke [Robinson], and I could have picked Andy [Leavine]. But I looked at the long-term out of Andy, with his size and his look. Then, I looked at what Luke had brought to the table with four years in the business, and not being an overly big guy, but being a good-looking guy, and not really having a mat-wrestling game, or an aerial game, or nothing. At his size, and his experience of four years, I needed to see more outta that guy. So I went with the six months of Andy, and the long-range potential.

You often tweet about UFC, and you're clearly a fan. But both Vince McMahon and Eric Bischoff have continuously said they don't believe that one is akin to the other...
(interrupts) Ah, horse-shit! Half of them UFC guys love pro wrestling, and half of the damn guys in pro wrestling love UFC. Those guys do a shoot aspect of what we are portraying. Potentially, all the holds that we use can hurt you.
I talk to guys from that world, and they absolutely love the business. I always hear from those fighters, and they wonder how we do it - staying healthy going up and down the road. And you look at them and you're thinking, "How do you do it?" 'cause those guys are the toughest human beings in the world. It's a different kind of tough, though. I always look at it like this: you gotta be tough like a cockroach to be in the pro wrestling game. UFC guys deliver, and take more punishment, but when you put that "every single night factor" in there, and all the travelling, and all the miles, and all the bumps, and all the partying, you gotta be tough like a cockroach to survive in the pro wrestling world. And that's kinda how I differentiate the two.

You've been working with Jim Ross on your new WWE DVD. Has it been an enjoyable experience to go back through your career so comprehensively?
Jim and I did some new commentary on about three matches, so that I can let you know what was going on in my head at the time, and talk about what's going on in the match. JR is heavily featured in this thing; that guy was so important in my career, with the way he called the matches, because I wasn't a traditional babyface. When I switched babyface, I was that anti-hero, so you can't just pile praise upon me, and JR always knew how to embellish me. He's a big part of my career, and really was the salt and pepper on a great steak.

Why do you think that Vince McMahon doesn't share your enthusiasm for JR's commentary? At SummerSlam, he was pulled from the announce team at the very last moment, and for the past couple of years, it's been clear that WWE prefer Michael Cole in his role.
I don't know what's going on. I'll tell you something, though; I caught the show, but I was probably 30 or 40 minutes late. So I'm sitting there, listening to the guys commentating, and I'm like, "Where the fuck is Jim?" Almost right away, I got a text from him saying they didn't use him.
You know, when I watched that main event, it was interesting. I love CM Punk and I love John Cena, but without Jim Ross calling that action... they really needed some help calling that. No disrespect to the guys calling it, but JR is simply the best of all-time. I love Gordon Solie and Lance Russell, but you needed Jim calling that match to tell the story of what's going on in that ring between those guys, and what's at stake, as only he can. So, I don't know what's going on between those guys, but shit, I'm a Jim Ross fan.