The Hitman And Her: Interview with Bret Hart (Issue 62; Nov/Dec 2010)

FSM: Bret, you’re here in the UK to promote the paperback edition of your book Hitman. You’ve spent a couple of years now promoting the book all across the world. Does doing that remind you in any way of being on the road as a wrestler?
Bret Hart: Not so much; it’s a long way from being picked up and thrown around like I used to be. It does turn into a bit of a memory lane experience, though, as you go places and see fans that you haven’t seen for 15 years.

You must have met hundreds of thousands of fans throughout your career. Do you ever recognise a face or two on your travels?
Oh yeah. I seem to have an amazing ability to remember people’s faces - not the names so much, but definitely faces. Sometimes I can spot a fan who I met ten years ago, when they were a kid, and I can still recollect them even though they’re all grown up.

Your book is incredibly extensive as it is, but you’ve talked previously about the manuscript from which it was edited. Looking back, is there anything that you regret leaving out of the final edit?
Well, I think it’s pretty tight the way it is at the moment, and I am quite proud of what I have written and the way it has come across. In saying that, though, there are a few things that I would have liked to have added again. It would have been good to put more in there about my father’s wrestling days, and Stampede Wrestling – in fact, there is enough there for a book all by itself, really. I get a bit nostalgic every time I look back, so there is a lot I could have kept, I guess.

One of the strongest points of the book is how honest it is, but in a recent interview your ex-wife Julie said that, after reading it, she felt like you were living a double life. Is that how it felt to you?
In some ways, yeah. I always recollect that when the wheels left the ground at Calgary Airport, I stopped being Joe Dad and suddenly become Bret "The Hitman" Hart again, and it stayed that way until I got home. It was a whole different person who had to survive from that point on.

You’ve wrestled a few shows in Europe recently. Did they feel like an in-ring "goodbye" tour at all for you?
Well I suppose it is, but then again every time I step into that ring, it’s always going to be my "last time", and I know a few people are getting sick and tired of hearing me say that. At this point, I don’t have any more bookings with WWE, and honestly I don’t know what will come of it. I am taking it one step at a time, and I am quite happy with my relationship with the WWE at this point. I don’t know how long WWE will want me, and I feel like I have used up all my opportunities there (laughs). Then, saying that, I usually get a call from them saying "How about we do this?", and I’m quite impressed with how creatively they have managed to get me back into their story.
I have to say, I don’t miss the aches and pains of being thrown around the ring - I’ve had my fill of that. But I do enjoy being around the wrestlers and the fans again. so this tour has been really good for me. I’ve had a really good ride.

Obviously we’d like to talk to you more about your recent WWE run, so can you describe how it felt to stand in that "Gorilla" position just before you went out that first night on Raw, after everything that had happened in the 13 years prior to that?
I had the pleasant numbness of a zombie (laughs). It was very surreal for me, so it certainly must have been for the fans, too. The whole thing with Shawn was a really powerful moment for the both of us, for the wrestlers, and for the company. At the time I think I was too distracted with doing what I was doing to really take it all in. Looking back at it, I guess it felt like a million pounds of weight being lifted off of everyone’s back. I felt a release the minute it happened. I’m grateful that it did happen, and I think it was a wise move for everyone, especially me, to make it happen, resolve it, or at least put it behind us.

When you went to the ring, you must have felt that magic between you and Shawn, as we all did watching at home. Did you wonder at that point whether the real program should have been between you and Shawn, rather than you and Vince?
Yeah, I guess, but I think you could tell Shawn was on his way out, and this was something that came up on his exit. I have a lot of respect for Shawn, despite our issues, and I really did think that he’d earned his road out. It would have been easy for Vince to have said "The timing isn’t right", but in reality it was good for Shawn to have that with me in the end, and it did kind of give everyone a sense of closure.

When you came back there was the obvious storyline with Vince that was very deeply set in reality. Was it weird, then, to do the additional leg injury angle when you already had such a powerful story to tell?
I think the whole story needed to be milked for all it was worth, because if we had just let it play out as it was, it all would have been over in a couple of minutes. The way they did it helped extended it and give it a bit more drama, and it really did help take the focus off of the stroke and my concussion injury, and it really allowed me to be Bret "The Hitman" Hart again, and it allowed people to pretend that I was still the old wrestler I was. What both Vince and I really wanted to get out of it was just to resurrect the Hitman as he was. I don’t think anyone wanted to see me come back as an old retired wrestler who just wanted to say hi.

You always set a high standard for yourself, especially in terms of your in-ring work, so how did you feel about not being able to perform to that standard, because of all you've been through?
I didn’t really worry about that. I knew from the start that there wasn’t any possible way I could be the technical, "excellence of execution" wrestler that I used to be, but if you look at the way it played out and the way the younger members of the family came out as lumberjacks, it was a sense of poetic justice, and it wrapped it up in a nice bow. I know some people were disappointed that I didn’t actually do more wrestling in the match, but you know, there is only so much you can actually do. I personally thought it went really well, and for my sister Alison, for example - she's a librarian at home who had just come down for the Hall of Fame - to then be walking down to the ring as an angry lumberjack, I found that quiet amusing.

When Tyson Kidd clotheslined Vince as he was held in the air, we couldn’t help but remember the story you told in your book about giving Vince the Hart Foundation finish in that bar…
Yeah, it looked pretty similar to that (laughs). He probably landed the same way, too. To Vince’s credit, he took a lot of lumps that day. I don’t know why he did; maybe it was a retribution thing.

How did it feel to win the U.S Title in Toronto? It must have been a wonderful moment.
It really was. I think it was probably one of the strangest title wins I have ever had, but it was great. I haven’t actually watched it back myself yet, but from what I recall, I felt as much elation as I have done for any of my other wins. It’s funny, I can tell people now that I was the US champ, and I guess it made me appreciate what I had actually done, and what I could achieve if I tried to move past everything. It was a really happy moment that I didn’t think I would get.

How much creative input did you have, if any, during this WWE run?
The truth is, when I first came forward and got in contact with them and said I wanted to do something, I spoke with Vince and his production staff, and I gave them a lot of ideas of what I could do and couldn’t do, and what I was allowed and not allowed to do. I said I would like to have some sort of interaction with some of the wrestlers I have had dealings with before, not like a physical moment, but like a moment in the ring with The Undertaker or Steve Austin. I even said maybe I could win a title somewhere, and almost everything I suggested to them, they have managed to actually squeeze into the time that we had. They have been really creative with me; they know what they want, and they have got some good writers who I think have really looked after me well.

Is there a moment from 2009 or 2010 that you think that you’ll be able to look back on and realise that coming back was all worth it, just for that one moment?
I think the real highlight will be me standing on that ramp and looking out over that Wrestlemania crowd. There must have been 80,000 people there (Editor’s note: the official number was 72,219) and when I was there I just thought to myself, "I’m here, I’m actually doing this", and I had a similar feeling walking up the ramp at Madison Square Garden, thinking, "Here I am pulling my bag up the steps I walked 10 or 15 years ago". It’s little things like that, rather than the dropkicks and backbreakers that used to be part of my routine.

You referred to Madison Square Garden, where WWE also hosted the Bret Hart Appreciation Night. You’ve spoken so far about how well they treated you in terms of storylines for television, but what about that night, which wasn’t in front of the cameras?
That was a magical moment. I think that was really the cherry on the cake for me, because I have had so many amazing moments there, and I think the participation in the match that night (pauses)…I think I really gave the fans enough of the old Bret Hart to make it worthwhile for everybody.

We recently had a chance to speak with Mick Foley, and he recalled his first match with you, which took place in England back in 1996. He said it was one of his favourite non-televised matches he ever had, so do you remember anything about the match?
Yeah I do. I actually remember being afraid to work with him, because I had seen him wrestle before, and I thought he was a big clumsy lummox who was out of control, falling all over the place, and I thought he was quite reckless out there. But when I did wrestle him, he was actually a real pro, and I think he is actually underestimated for his wrestling skill - he was one of the better wrestlers I fought. He had great timing and really had good wrestling psychology; he understood how to layer a match, and really knew how to tell a story with his body. Mick never used to hurt anybody with his wrestling, but he really took at lot of punishment himself to make the guys he worked with look good.

On the recent WWE UK tour, Harry Smith visited with the Dynamite Kid. When was the last time you saw him, and is there a match or a moment that comes to mind when someone mentions his name?
I think the last time I saw him was back in 1992 – I won the World title and I was talking to him then. The truth is, I probably reflect on working with Dynamite more than any other wrestler out there. I learned so much from him, and he really was part of my success. When we were younger, it was like two knifes sharpening each other up. I can remember wrestling Dynamite in Warrington for Joint Promotions in the early Eighties. When I think back, I remember two young guys, in his home town, and we had such a great match. Max Crabtree came up to me after that one and showed me the booking sheet, and I was on it every day (laughs).

Naturally, many wrestling fans like to talk to you about your brother Owen and brother-in-law Davey Boy Smith, who are sadly no longer with us. But we also got to know your brother Dean through your book, and with it being almost exactly 20 years since Dean passed, is there something you’d like to share about him?
In reflecting on Dean, I think most people think back on Owen more, and obviously the impact that had on the family. But when I think about Dean, I know he was such a huge fan of mine, and a fan of the sport as well. I know that he would be standing up proud whenever he got to talk about me. The truth is, my first real wrestling sparring partner was Dean, and I really wish he could have been there to see what was around the corner. I think he would have been really proud of what I actually achieved.

Another big influence in your life, Mr Hito (Katsuji Adachi), the man who trained you, also passed away this year. It’s been said that his style was very methodical and repetitive, but that it really worked. Was that how it was for you?
He was the best teacher in the world, and he was perfect for me. If you’re ever going to get trained, you’ve got to try and find an old school Japanese wrestler. He was different to others in that he never used to crack the whip. Hito understood me and knew my potential, but also how to gently get what he needed out of me.
And yeah, he was very repetitive. I remember him teaching me how to fall, and then again and again and again, and I actually turned round to him and said: “When do I learn how to do the fancy stuff?” He said: “That stuff is easy - this is what you really have got to learn”. But I don’t think I ever did learn how to throw a punch or anything with him; he just said "You’ll learn that, it’ll come", and it did. You know, it’s those things that’ll teach you how to keep your career going longer, and you know I have been luckier than guys like Dynamite or Shawn, and when I have fallen out the ring or had a dangerous landing I was skilled in knowing how to fall, and that really saved me on so many occasions. So many times when I hit the ground I thought: "Thank god Mr Hito taught me that." But I really took his passing pretty hard, and he was as much of a father figure to me as anybody.

You’ve talked in the past about your first concussion coming in the early Eighties from a Tiger Mask missile drop kick, and you obviously had issues with concussions which cost you your career, so you must be pleased that it’s now becoming such a hot topic in the wrestling world?
It’s a good thing, and I know European football has more concussions than any other sport, but other sports are waking up to these dangers, and it’s a terrible thing to realise what damage it can cause - you can’t just trade in your brain or get a metal one installed. I think even though the Tiger Mask shot was bad, it’s not half as bad as the shot I took from Goldberg. I can only think it was more like someone taking a hockey stick and hitting you over the back of the head really hard, and there shouldn’t be any call for anything that dangerous to happen.

We all know that banning unprotected chair shots is a big shift for wrestling, but are there more fundamental changes that wrestling can make to avoid concussions?
I think the biggest and most important thing to give to the wrestlers is a not such a grinding schedule. I think the majority of the injuries and problems come from when guys are tired and worn out. I think wrestlers are bled for everything they have got now, and even when we finished this tour in Istanbul, I had a few days to chill out and go sightseeing, while the wrestlers had another two really tough days, and were pushed hard. It was so bad that I had to tell the promoters I couldn’t do anything, because I can’t work without sleep, but the wrestlers are just go, go, go all the time. I hope that over time, wrestlers get more rest, and I think that’ll make a big difference.

Your match with Davey Boy from Summerslam 1992 recently took a place in the UK Wrestling Hall of Fame. We’ve heard so many stories about the match itself, but what does it feel like to still have people adore that match?
I’m glad that people remember it with the same pride I do. It was a magical night for me. We stayed at a Holiday Inn in London for that show, and I remember sitting in my room, looking down, seeing the streets in a carnival atmosphere, with people chanting my name. It’s that kind of passion that you don’t get in the US or Canada, only here in England, and it was something that just made you feel great.

In closing, is there anything you’d like to say to your UK fans?
Just that I am always glad that you welcome me back so strongly. I feel so embraced here. I used to have a lot of fans who were little kids back then, and now often its quite emotional to see how much I have impacted their lives, and how they never stopped letting me be their hero. I seem to hold a special place in their hearts, and vice-versa, but it really is so good to hear from the fans. I am lucky because I have great fans everywhere, but it’s just that British fans do things like the soccer chants - there was always such a call from the fans, and I really never got that anywhere else. I think I signed my book for four hours when I came here one time, but honestly, doing that for the fans here made me feel like the king of wrestling.